Atheists Flee Reason

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A muslim member ray asks atheists for what reason is Islam object of hatred in US.

No good reason to hate Islam

by rays:
Posted: 30 December 2009 06:58 AM

[Words by ray are in bold, words of goldenhawk786 are in italics.]

Since the terrorists attacks in New York on
September 11, 2001 our television and newspapers have done a pretty good job at creating hatred of Islam inside many people.
Only a few thinking people survive this bombardment of propaganda.
I am sure some of you hate Islam. This topic is primarily for you. Those members who do not hate Islam as a religion, are also requested to take part.
As this forum is called a REASON PROJECT, lets see how reasonable we all are.
I would like to put a question to all you guys:
If you hate Islam, then please provide one good reason for this hatred.

[Atheists reply and rays gives his response:]

Thanks guys.
I am sure as atheists, you are not friendly to any religion that accepts God.
But lets be frank here; we all know that many of you are particularly nasty towards Islam.
I just wanted to know what makes Islam a target of your disgust.
Please do carry on.
Give just ONE VALID REASON as to why you hate Islam.

Here are a few answers you have provided so far:

1. bigredfutbol and screwtape both says they hate Islam because it is the most fundamentalist, intolerant, and violent religion.
2. Tilberian says he hates Islam because it allows death penalty for women who commit adultery and shame the family.
3. Skipshot says he hates Islam because it scare its followers into giving up their full freedom of expression.

My Responses:

1. Counting only the bodybags, I believe you would agree that U.S. Military has more graves to its credit than all religions put together.
2. Bible allows capital punishment of stoning to death for adulterous men and women. Why are you picking only on Islam?
3. Even in 21st century, no nation on earth allows complete liberty to its people. If you bother to take a close look at U.S., it is fast becoming a police state.


[More replies from Atheists:]


Skipshot:

I’m getting the sinking feeling this discussion will go nowhere since reasons have already been offered.

Yes, but I asked for VALID reasons. So far, the women have only given me their fantacies.

eudemonia:

What reasons presented were INVALID?
Lets compare disdain for Christianity vs disdain for Islam.
Who is the better role model to base a religious worldview on-Jesus or Mohammed?
I’ll let you INVALIDATE my comment.

Some Western thinkers have said that the world needs a man like Mohammed. He has been rated world’s most influential figure.

can zen:

It is beyond me why you even have to ask this question, rays.
But, since you asked: I hate islam because it is filled with hatred.
Bob

Wow. Is that a good reason or the best reason? Also tell me, how full are you with hatred?

bigredfutbol:

I hate pointless, disingenuous threads started by agenda-wielding trolls who have no interest in open debate.

Yes Maam.
Come on guys. Agree that this topic is useless because Miss Good Looks says its pointless. She has something else on her mind.

arbiter:

You said: "As this forum is called a REASON PROJECT, lets see how reasonable we all are."

Does this mean you are testing yourself?
It is obvious that your feeble arguments have crumbled before this small army of freethinkers.
Perhaps you do not understand the definition of reason and its practice in life choices. Every single person who has responded to your thread has destroyed your ignorant topic title and your weak defense of it.

Oh, you have appointed yourself judge for everyone.
Ok then. Yes your honour. You MUST be right.

Army of freethinkers yes. But what is needed is army of reasonable thinkers.

Anybody can freethink. No restrictions. Think whatever. Do whatever. And the result is often similar to Iraq War, Vietnam War, 9/11, Monica Lewinsky affair… all due to “freethinking”, but not CORRECT THINKING.
Which is why I asked for VALID REASONS.
Maybe you dont know what “valid” is.


Wcollins260:

Is it me, or are these these two Muslim fellows simply horrible at making arguments?

bigredfutbol:

Are you kidding me—look above. He dismissed several of us by calling us girls! That’s awesome! I haven’t seen that kind of rhetorical brilliance since 7th-grade gym class. Well played, rays!


Thanks kid.
Ok. Sorry about the delay. I can only come online once in a while. My job gives me very little time off work.
Anyway,
You guys have disappointed me.
All you have been saying repeatedly is: “I dont like it… I dont like it.” Thats how 13 year old chicks talk who have just started their periods.
Alright, maybe I was a bit hard on you. I will let you grow up, [ or rather “EVOLVE” ], before I ask such a difficult question.
I gave you benefit of the doubt. I thought you Atheists were sharp. I guess learn something new everyday.
I take it that beside your prejuidices, you cannot rationally justify one valid cause to dislike Islam.
All that you gave me were things, which, you either do yourself, or, things which your leaders advocate [eg violence], or things that your secular nations and government are enganed in as well.
Yet, conveniently, you switch off to this fact and play the innocent.
I guess that when it comes Atheists hating believers, its back to “Suspension of Disbelief”.
Atheists often use this device to justify the use of invalid claims against Islam. Just observe it yourself.

[Atheists respond with more answers:]


unsmoked:

you’d have to prove that the man who recently tried to blow up the plane over Detroit stands alone - that there are not hundreds more like him waiting for their chance to commit suicide while murdering non-Muslims and damaging non-Muslim society.

Is that a reasonable demand?

Thats exactly what Al Qaeda type of mentality. Those Wahhabis also ask the American people to PROVE that the 50, or so, U.S. Marines who tortured prisoners in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo were the only ones, and that there are NOT hundreds more like them waiting for their chance to murder and waterboard muslims in secret black site detention camps.

Can you see your error now? If not then, you and bin Laden would get along fine. You have similiar illogical thinking.

eudemonia:

Is it not valid to dislke a religion who’s main character was a pedophile and a murderer and who we must believe flew to heaven on a white horse?

You would have to prove that such accusation are indeed valid. Can you?
When a judge in Texas execute a criminal, the relatives sometimes accuses the court of murdering their kin.
In 19th century USA, girls use to marry at age 12 .
Even today, in some U.S. states and otjher non-muslim countries, you can still wed at 14 and even younger. Do you hate these people too?
I think you most of you guys dont think before opening your mouth. This reveals your level of intellect.
Come on please, I am waiting for some good valid reasons. If you cant think of any just admit it instead of embarrassing replies.


I asked for “valid reason” that anyone has to hate Islam.

This is what I got back:
You decide for yourselves whether these are “VALID REASONS”.

1. Religion, including Islam, makes people stupid. That alone is VALID enough to dislike it.

2. we really needn’t elaborate beyond a single word ... “sick!”

3. You base your life on an irrational, violent, man made fairytale and you complain that no one can give you one rational reason not to.

And this is supposed to be a “REASON PROJECT”.
God help us all.


goodgraydrab:

Your above post is another valid reason. Distortion of reality to suit your own purpose.

So, you also hate democracy because politicians lie. And thats why you also hate Islam because you think its adherent twist the facts?
For you thats a VALID reason to hate a world ideology?
May the heavens help us all.

You see, this type of replies given above all reminds of the 1995 Cameron Diaz film - “THE LAST SUPPER” - where the a group of Democrat liberals execute the invited guests one by one - first for only major crimes - and then, for absolutely any slip up on the dinner table.

They too had a “reason project” going. Its a food for mind film noir. Brilliant stuff.

I urge you guys to all watch that movie and then think of this topic.
I may be wrong in this but some of you, dear members, of the “REASON PROJECT” appear to be in the similar if not the same boat as those intellectuals in the film.
I highly recommend it for those who think they have a VALID reason to hate Islam.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Supper_(1995_film)


Gila Guerilla:

I can only speak for myself, but what I hate to see in others, I also hate in myself. Furthermore if leaders were to do these things, (whatever they may be), then I would hate to see it in them too. My guess is that rational thinkers, (and atheists are generally included in that), would feel the same. It has been pointed out in this thread, that the Reason Project community do think like that – ie. bad is bad wherever it may be. The problem might just stem from the possibility that we don’t all agree on what counts as being “bad”, (or what counts as being “good”).
I am unsure as to what the word hate actually means in this thread. In my case, it means that I see some things that I dislike, and would rather see eliminated. My tool of choice for eliminating such things would be reasoning. My level of feeling about this is strong. As far as Islam is concerned, if it allowed people to be truly free – even to think “incorrectly”, then it, (Islam), would be OK by me. If it could be acceptable to Muslims that I be atheist, and that their fellow Muslims could be free – eg. in how they dress, (or whatever), then Islam would be OK. I wouldn’t join its ranks, but then I don’t demand that anyone agree with me.
I can’t help thinking that if someone wanted to force me to be or think a certain way, then I’d owe it to myself to resist with the necessary resistive force, in kind, (basing my own position on my own reasoning and reasonableness).

That was a beautiful and reasonable reply Gila. I am with you on what you have stated.
I as a fervent muslim and a thinking believer can tell you, as well as everyone else, that Islam does allow people to be free; and, even to reject God if they so chose. Also, it is acceptable to me, that you remain an atheist if you so chose.
My holy book and authority, the Quran, like any other Good Constitution, and Bill of Rights, ensures certain freedom. People can believe and disbelieve whatever they like.
However, Quran does places some limits on certain things which people can and cannot do. This is not irrational. All Constitutions restrict some behavior.
There can never be total absolute freedom of conduct for the population - for this would be anarchy.

Gila Guerilla:

[GAD you said to ray]: "Would you not agree that if Islam is an irrational, violent, man made fairytale that that would be a valid reason?

I would, IF given the truth of the above highlighted if. Of course, rays does not accept the truth of the if in the conditional statement above.

Thank you Gila. You have taken trouble to point out to the gentleman the obvious flaw in his so-called valid reason. I believe you can see the errors of logic in the answers given by most members. But there is no need to go through all of them.
I think you know well how much patience one needs to show for peace to prevail.



goldenhawk786:

anyway, back to the question. where do you get your morels from?

thats where you atheists have it all wrong. you try to tip toe against this point and always try to evade by bringing other stuff into the debate. well it wont wash with me. well here is what i think. you athiests just follow your own morel compass. if it was left to you, this world would be in a right mess. you have no answer to this question. if i lived in your world, i can commit theft, rape, murder, and you wont be able to judge me because i will be following my own “moral” compass. you wont be able to pass any judgement on me because i would simply say that i think what i do is right. you wont be able to refute me because YOU have no universal right or wrong book. according to you evolutionists, might is right. heck, its the survival of the fittest right ?

unsmoked said:

Atheists are a minority in the world population. The world is being run by religious people and it is 'in a right mess.' The atheist's answer to this question is to try the way suggested by most scientists. (Most scientists are atheists).

goldenhawk786:

i agree that athiests are a minority. and they should not have the power like stalin did. where is your evidence that most scientists are athiets ?

unsmoked said:

Religious people, as you know, have been committing theft, rape, and murder since religion began. Often they use their holy books to justify their theft, rape, and murder. "An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth!" (moral justification for revenge), and so forth. Check out Numbers 31 in the Old Testament - 'Moses War Against the Midians.' There you will find organized theft, rape, and slaughter - thousands of women and children - POW's - murdered in cold blood.

goldenhawk786:

are you telling me, atheists dont commit murder and rape ? dont say religious people have be doing evil. its not religious people but mankind in general. ask your atheist master stalin what he did when he came to power. so dont act as if atheists are all angels.

unsmoked said:

It wouldn't surprise me if a poll showed that most criminals and war-mongers claimed to be religious, and it wouldn't surprise me to learn that most Peace Corp workers, and most people who are trying to save the environment are atheists.

goldenhawk786:

where did you get this information from? let me tell you something about the 20th century mate, which we have just left behind us. it was a century of war and conflict, leading to disasters, pain, massacres, poverty, and enormous destruction. Millions of people were killed, massacred, abandoned to hunger and death, and left without home or shelter, protection, or support. And all for nothing: in the name of serving deviant ideologies like yours. Millions were left exposed to inhuman treatment that not even animals should be allowed to suffer. On nearly every occasion there were despots' and dictators' signatures beneath all the suffering and disasters: Stalin, Lenin, T rotsky, Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler, Mussolini, Franco… .you want me to carry on ?

unsmoked said:

Atheist scientists are telling us that the human population explosion is leading us toward global disaster - that the burning of fossil fuels and the destruction of the rain forests are leading us toward global disaster - wars caused by drought, famine, disease and whole populations being displaced. Most religious people think it's okay to have large families; okay to use up the planet - deplete everything like a plague of locusts. Everything is here for humans to use up, right? Caring for the planet will get you nowhere, right? What matters is to accept your holy book, your prophet, as the one true religion, right?

goldenhawk786:

well its survival of the fittest according to you athiests right? who are you to judge whether to have a large family is wrong? how does it give you the right to decide that is wrong?
well why care for the planet when i am going to be dead and dust to dust according to you right ? i maight as well be selfish and live my life to the full as much as i can even if its the cost to the planet. you cant say its wrong can you? you have no rule book. thats what you athiests fail to understand.

unsmoked said:

You agree that atheists are a minority. You agree that mankind in general is religious. Please follow your own reasoning - mankind in general is religious, and mankind in general is doing evil.
Please take two minutes to check this web page on the subject of over-population and the destruction of the environment. Why does your religious sense of morality prevent you from seeing that humans are fouling their own nest? Since most of the world is Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, Hindu - why have these billions of religious people and their leaders been unable to prevent the world’s ecosystems from collapsing? Do you think it is atheists who are destroying the fisheries and rain forests? Is it the small percentage of atheists around the world who are causing global harming?

goldenhawk786:

i didnt say mankind is religious. most of mankind is currupt becuase they are not following the words of allah, they can call themelves religious but most of them are perverted transgressors.it is the west that is destorying the earth and not islam. islam is against the capitalist way of life as it capitalism encourges greed and does not give a monkeys about the consequences. thats one of the reasons the west sees islam as a danger because its in direct contradiction with the “values” of the west.

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teuchter said:

Between blowing themselves up and firing rockets from drones at each other, I’m amazed that these crusaders and jihadists have time to come up with an agreement that EVERYONE (presumably including themselves) would just love to rape, pillage and loot but god—no allah—no jesus—- no muhamad—DIE YOU SCURRILOUS BLASPHEMER!—NO YOU DIE, INFIDEL SILLY BILLY MONKEY DOG GOAT!
I’m sorry. Where was I? Oh yeah, these religious types seem to think that everyone wants to rape and pillage, and only their own peculiar diety puts the brakes on this destructive behavior. Quite aside from raising questions about the desires of anyone making this argument, it wholly ignores the role of evolution, and the adaptive benefits of the inherent capacity for cooperation and empathy. Without necessity of mythology. See Bonobos, for example.

goldenhawk786:

like allah says in the holy quran that man is made weak. so therefore i agree with that statement in the holy book. man needs to be disaplined. i dont commit evil acts because i fear god. you guys (in the general sense) dont fear god but fear the law, otherwise given half a chance, some of you would love to be rulers like genghis khan or stalin. you athiests think that this is only life for you so why not make full use of it right? there are no consequences, hence nothing to worry about right ? do what you want (kill, rape, goto war etc…) and live life to the full

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eudemonia said:

Lets pretend you are right though.

Where did God get his morals from?

goldenhawk786:

what a stupid question. typical atheist. listen you idiot, he does not get his morals from anywhere because god is all knowing. but thats beyond your comprehension.

nonverbal said:

I’ll go ahead and ask an even stupider question. How do you assume God is good? And a follow-up question: If God is evil, what are the chances he’ll be honest with you in his descriptions of himself?

goldenhawk786:

@nonverbal….please tell me you are not serious, or are you being just being sarcastic ?

can zen said:

Of course he is being serious goldenhawk. Don’t you understand that Allah is All in your own imagination (and the imaginations of All those theists who have come before you)? Any properly skeptical atheist would ask a question like nonverbal did, this is just plain common sense. How do you know that Allah is good? He could be the most evil force in the universe for all we know... because Allah is just an imaginary being, get it?

allah is not in my imagination. i dont live in a fantasy world and deny facts unlike you lot. God being evil ? perish the thought ! look at the teachings of the holy quran and see how peaceful it is. how much it promotes good. how it deals in justice. how it promotes peace and harmony. if all this is evil to you, then i dont know what good is ! but you guys dont WANT read or hear all these statements i have mentioned i wonder who is being brainwashed.

can zen said:

Yes there is wisdom in the Quran - it is the wisdom of a history of a certain civilization, but it has nothing to do with gods or supernatural beings. Yes, America has been one of the worst terrorist organizations every created by human beings, but the Nazis were much, much worse, and the Soviets were at least as horrible as the worst of the American atrocities. But those days of madness are passing goldenhawk, thankfully.

atheism ignorance strikes again !!!! islam is a way of life. not just about historical references. its teachings are for everyone, rich, poor, kings, paupers, different cultures etc…all trying to better the life of mankind, but this is way to much for your monkey brain. let me ask you something, forget reading the whole quran, as one should do so to form an opinion, but i bet you have not read ANY full chapter of the quran have you ? then you makes claims about this and that when you know nothing about the quran ! all you guys do is base your evidence from hearsay, unreliable and biased sources. if this was a court of law and islam was on trial, i would love to have YOU as the prosecutor. not only i would win so easily, but you would also get fined also for wasting the courts time !

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ok, to all you idiots (like carl zen) who think that the holy prophet muhammad (S) was nothig but a tribal warrior who was just killing people to unite the tribes for his own personal good. i really dont know where you got this idea, but it clearly demonstrates you know nothng abou this holy peronality. he was the most peace loving person ever existed (and i am not exagaerting here). he did unite the tribes of arabia, not through tyranny or cunning, but by his preaching and his exhalted character. yes there were wars, but if you bother to study them, they were all fought in self defence and nothing more unlike your western policy of pre emtive strikes.

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No Atheist can successfully answer that clear and logical point on moral sources, goldenhawk786.
That is why they hate believers because they have a solid reference point.
Without a reference point there can be nothing, not even scientific research, nor a single expreriment.
Everybody gets the point of that POINT, but it hurts only the godless monkeys.
Debates on moral values are too much for Atheists to handle. They always run away.

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The title of this thread was very clear. Even a ten year old human child can understand it.
I said human child. Not a chimp.
It is very interesting to see once again that when Atheists cannot answer a question in a reasonable manner, they divert to another subject which is easy for them.
Monkeys are like children. That is why they mess around. And that is why they are never taken seriously. They would be so much happier if they remained in a jungle. What they are doing in human communities, I dont know. Well, we have zoos for them here to keep them happy.

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Every stupid excuse that you Atheists have given against God, or against His perfect book the Holy Quran, or against His perfect Messenger Prophet Mohammed... all such absurd statements of yours have been shown to you to be nothing but wishes of your irrational and brainwashed thinking.

Me and goldenkawk786 have laid out many logical arguments and clear scientific evidence which proves that Atheists hatred of Islam is nothing but a stupid excuse.

goldenhawk786 has particulary tried to reason with you Atheists, but you people simply refuse to open your mind to logic and real scientific facts.

It is as if you Atheists LIKE being stupid. You appears that way to every believer of God.

God can read the mind of Atheists. He revelaed in teh Quran that Atheists hate God, because they hate anything that goes against their wishes.

That is worst blindness of all. Seeing you see not. Hearing you hear not. Deaf and blind even when your ears and eyes are perfect.

When I listen to your silly excuses against God, it confirms your depth of delusions.

So far, I have not seen one sound reason from Atheists against anything that the holy Quran teaches.

You are only giviing me your personal feelings. Well, I dont give a damn about your personal feelings.

Give me valid reasons. You have so far failed to provide a single one.

You Atheists are no different from a silly woman who says I dont like brown lipstick, and all who do, are crazy.

That is your level of mentality. Childish.

You Atheists just love to cling on to your false hopes and unproven theories.

It is shocking for me to see that Atheists keep trying to find comfort in things they know to be uncertain.

Wake up.

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goldenhawk786,

Just watch, more evasive replies coming from Atheists.

In this thread, I simply asked a clear question to those who hate God and his religion of Islam.

Any thinking person would notice how Atheists cannot tackle an easy straightforward questions.

Just test the primates and see for yourself.

Logic and facts seem to cause pain to the Atheists.

eudemonia:

Atheists have no theories and do not have to prove anything idiot wind. We simply believe their are no God(s), because there has never been any evidence that there are God(s)
Are you capable of even understanding the basis of this discussion? If not take your ball and go home.

What do you mean Atheists have no theories?

What do you call that Monkey Tale which you have invented?

Scientists cannot even agree if its crap, true, or just a wishful thiking of a deluded mind.

[ ray was banned from debating with Atheists after this post. ]

eudemonia:

Thats called the Theory of Evolution dumb fuck, and it has nothing to do with Atheism. Evolution is a scientific theory and fact, supported by mountains of observed, testable, falsifiable evidence, complied over a couple of hundred years now.
Atheism is not a theory. It is simply the nonbelief in God(s)
Maybe you should understand what things are before you try to argue against them. Do you understand the difference between science and faith even?
What the fuck are you even doing here and who lets you use their keyboard?