Thursday
Science sees God
-
Topic: Science sees God
03 August 2009
Everyone knows that many great scientists believe in God.
But how can belief that a Supreme Being does exists be based on solid ground?
Well, actually scienstist say that it is literally the solid ground that makes them believe in a Powerful God.
How?
We can arrive at God by two means:
Using pure logic, or by using science.
Here we will consider the latter method: science.
Lets see if modern science can be uses to provide the evidence:
1. Everything that has a beginning has a Cause.
2. Scientists have now shown that Universe had a beginning some 14 billion years ago.
3. Therefore, Universe has a Cause.
This seems to be a very sound argument from scientific observation.
--
b00ger :
Congratulations! You have just proved that the Universe had a cause! That’s some shocking news I never heard before.
Sarcasm aside, I believe you forgot 4. That cause is God, which in no way follows from the above.
GAD:
And what is “the cause” of god? If god doesn’t need a cause then neither does the universe.
In the 20th century, the Steady State Thoery of the Universe has been destroyed.
According to this theory the universe was infinite and had always existed.
Hence there was no need of a God.
Today, in the light of modern Physics, only a few stubborn individuals cling on to it.
Science has now shows this theory to be utterly false.
Discoveries by Astronomers assert that Universe is neither infinite nor has it been eternally.
Too bad for straw clutchers.
hannahfriend :
- Most of the posters on this website describe themselves as atheists or agnostics. Every once in a while, someone who believes in God comes on board. Since this is the REASON Project, can I hope that people will be able to post a civil discussion? By responding to the believer with insults, as some of you have, you give the impression that non-believers are louts. Not a very good way to open someone’s mind to another viewpoint, eh?
- I still don’t see how calling people dunderheads, vapid, and lazy can help them see reason.
Honesty, all of us harbor intellectual contradictions we are blind about, especially if we’ve been told some notion is true all our lives by the people we love and trust..
-I’m not sure why you take their disagreement as an “insult.” They disagree with you; you disagree with them. There’s a lot of disagreeing that goes on on this website by design. Your way of looking at the world is more rational, but you’ll not help others to see their irrationality by driving them away. Try to be a teacher. You may say something that will really make them think. Yes, even religious people can change. Several on this site can attest to that.
Hey, when you were a teenager, you probably thought your parents didn’t understand anything important. Now you see their point of view a little better. Change takes time.
My college-age son helped me to see the illogic of many of my previously-held religious ideas. Yeah, he was a philosophy major, so he had the advantage of being trained in rational argument (no fair fight!). We’d talk and talk, and a lot of the time, he’d bring in a totally new perspective. Darn him. I realized at one point the whole basis for my hanging onto my belief was that I wanted to feel loved by God. I thought I needed that to go on. Once I’d dredged that out, I was honest enough to see that that wasn’t a very good argument for the actual existence of God. If he’d called me stupid and intellectually lazy, we would have never gotten to that point.
[ Atheists of Reason Project went off topic after this point.]
_____________________
Topic: Science sees God
03 August 2009
Everyone knows that many great scientists believe in God.
But how can belief that a Supreme Being does exists be based on solid ground?
Well, actually scienstist say that it is literally the solid ground that makes them believe in a Powerful God.
How?
We can arrive at God by two means:
Using pure logic, or by using science.
Here we will consider the latter method: science.
Lets see if modern science can be uses to provide the evidence:
1. Everything that has a beginning has a Cause.
2. Scientists have now shown that Universe had a beginning some 14 billion years ago.
3. Therefore, Universe has a Cause.
This seems to be a very sound argument from scientific observation.
--
b00ger :
Congratulations! You have just proved that the Universe had a cause! That’s some shocking news I never heard before.
Sarcasm aside, I believe you forgot 4. That cause is God, which in no way follows from the above.
GAD:
And what is “the cause” of god? If god doesn’t need a cause then neither does the universe.
In the 20th century, the Steady State Thoery of the Universe has been destroyed.
According to this theory the universe was infinite and had always existed.
Hence there was no need of a God.
Today, in the light of modern Physics, only a few stubborn individuals cling on to it.
Science has now shows this theory to be utterly false.
Discoveries by Astronomers assert that Universe is neither infinite nor has it been eternally.
Too bad for straw clutchers.
hannahfriend :
- Most of the posters on this website describe themselves as atheists or agnostics. Every once in a while, someone who believes in God comes on board. Since this is the REASON Project, can I hope that people will be able to post a civil discussion? By responding to the believer with insults, as some of you have, you give the impression that non-believers are louts. Not a very good way to open someone’s mind to another viewpoint, eh?
- I still don’t see how calling people dunderheads, vapid, and lazy can help them see reason.
Honesty, all of us harbor intellectual contradictions we are blind about, especially if we’ve been told some notion is true all our lives by the people we love and trust..
-I’m not sure why you take their disagreement as an “insult.” They disagree with you; you disagree with them. There’s a lot of disagreeing that goes on on this website by design. Your way of looking at the world is more rational, but you’ll not help others to see their irrationality by driving them away. Try to be a teacher. You may say something that will really make them think. Yes, even religious people can change. Several on this site can attest to that.
Hey, when you were a teenager, you probably thought your parents didn’t understand anything important. Now you see their point of view a little better. Change takes time.
My college-age son helped me to see the illogic of many of my previously-held religious ideas. Yeah, he was a philosophy major, so he had the advantage of being trained in rational argument (no fair fight!). We’d talk and talk, and a lot of the time, he’d bring in a totally new perspective. Darn him. I realized at one point the whole basis for my hanging onto my belief was that I wanted to feel loved by God. I thought I needed that to go on. Once I’d dredged that out, I was honest enough to see that that wasn’t a very good argument for the actual existence of God. If he’d called me stupid and intellectually lazy, we would have never gotten to that point.
[ Atheists of Reason Project went off topic after this point.]
_____________________
Freedom of Speech
Reason Project Forum
This Forum:
[ Ray puts atheists on the spot about their delusions of freedom ]
I would like to ask you Atheists a question, and especially to admins here, as the question is about this forum.
Are you Atheists as free as you think you are ?
Are there any restrictions on free speech here.
I mean… there is a lot of swearing going on here, abusive words, insults and all that, but whats the limit ?
Can you write anything and whatever you like onthis forum, even if it really offends somebody, and makes then very angry.
I hope you understand my question.
Thanks.
-
Dennis Campbell:
Well, this is not a kiddy day care center.
Andrew, Administrator :
restrictions?
Only those imposed by peer pressure.
limits?
It’s hard to say. I’ll let you know when you get there.
anything at all offensive?
Apparently so. Most of us have very thick skins.
Ah, after all that, it seems you atheists are not so free and thick skinned after all.
Just as I thought.
Ok. Andrew,
Please dont beat about the bush. You are not a woman.
Just tell us the red line.
Jefe:
So rays, in answer to your question: Go ahead and post any old thing you like. Just be aware that with great freedom comes great responsibility.
Dennis Campbell:
You’ve just left him in the dark! The only responsibility he has is to obey his god, and he’s not free not to do so. The possibility that his god is him, he’ll not be able to consider.
You have not lit your torch either.
Instead of either agreeing or disagreeing with Jefe, you simply quoted him and then moved deviously onto me.
Dennis, why dont you tell us your stance clearly.
You seem to be claiming this vlaue of free speach and yet you are not so sure either.
You atheists adding all sorts to threats against freedom of speech.
Come on, which is it? Free or not?
Its not that difficult a question.
-
[ Ray says before quoating Dennis]:
I wonder why.
More psycho slippery:
Dennis Campbell:
There is a value we hold in most western countries called “freedom of speech, notably absent in Iran and some other Islamic oountries, bu there is no such requirement that people need to listen to or read blather.
Instead of answering the questions, you cleverly deflected it.
You may be a Doc, but I’m from God. I can see your monkey tactics from this distance.
To remind everyone, it was about this “value” of yours that I was asking about. I am getting contradicdictory answers from Atheists. Why?
It seems some of you have thicker skin while other have skin similiar to Iranians.
-
[ Ray repeats and quotes Atheists]
To remind everyone, it was about this “value” of yours that I was asking about.
I am getting contradicdictory answers from Atheists.
Why?
CalmWind:
They don’t own the site and therefore don’t have the power to decide what can and can not be published.
So they can say: Post anything rays! That doesn’t mean you wouldn’t be banned by the owner however much we would stand on your side.
Ah I see. The powerful Atheists are similiar to powerful Iranian authorities. Its clear now. Thanks.
Furthermore I think you are confusing freedom of speech with freedom of thought.
Please, CalmWind. Read my question. It was NOT about thinking. It was about writing and speaking.
While you can think whatever you like, freedom of speech has never been without rules. You are not protected by the freedom to speak, when making death threats for example. If stopping you from speaking freely would prevent harm to others, I and others would have the right to do so.
I agree.
So, you are saying that Atheists cannot get on a moral high horse and claim they have total freedom of speech. There is no such horse. Its just their dream. The monkey riders are deluded.
Thanks.
Also,
Would you explain what exactly earns a ban here ?
Please give examples
-
eudemonia said you atheists have different values. you dont believe in the same thing?
So, one atheist might say its ok to properly kiss in public, while another might say its disgusting and immoral ?
Is that right?
-
You guys were beating this drum about “freedom of expression”, “freedom of expression”, “freedom of expression”, but, as soon as I asked you where exactly you stand, you all went wobbly like women.
Its clear that you guys are all over the show. You Atheists have not yet got your story straight.
Once you do, let me know. Then we can talk about it properly.
Maybe its not for Atheists, but this freedom of speech is an important matter for me.
[Andrew bans Ray from discussions on Reason Project Forum]:
Andrew:
You’re suspended until further notice.
bigredfutbol:
Well done.
Skipshot:
You’ve done the right thing by putting that child on a time-out.
Dennis Campbell:
Andrew, If this is what I hope it is, a banning, please accept my heartfelt thanks...
this is supposed to be a forum to promote reason, secular values and rationality.
Dennis
Skipshot:
I wonder if rays sees the irony of his suspension as the conversation turned to ‘freedom of speech’.
Dennis Campbell:
No one said that freedom of speech is without qualifications. One of them being that that applies to public and not private venues.
-
[ Rays was banned by Atheists during the discussion of concept of freedom of speech]
_____________________________
This Forum:
[ Ray puts atheists on the spot about their delusions of freedom ]
I would like to ask you Atheists a question, and especially to admins here, as the question is about this forum.
Are you Atheists as free as you think you are ?
Are there any restrictions on free speech here.
I mean… there is a lot of swearing going on here, abusive words, insults and all that, but whats the limit ?
Can you write anything and whatever you like onthis forum, even if it really offends somebody, and makes then very angry.
I hope you understand my question.
Thanks.
-
Dennis Campbell:
Well, this is not a kiddy day care center.
Andrew, Administrator :
restrictions?
Only those imposed by peer pressure.
limits?
It’s hard to say. I’ll let you know when you get there.
anything at all offensive?
Apparently so. Most of us have very thick skins.
Ah, after all that, it seems you atheists are not so free and thick skinned after all.
Just as I thought.
Ok. Andrew,
Please dont beat about the bush. You are not a woman.
Just tell us the red line.
Jefe:
So rays, in answer to your question: Go ahead and post any old thing you like. Just be aware that with great freedom comes great responsibility.
Dennis Campbell:
You’ve just left him in the dark! The only responsibility he has is to obey his god, and he’s not free not to do so. The possibility that his god is him, he’ll not be able to consider.
You have not lit your torch either.
Instead of either agreeing or disagreeing with Jefe, you simply quoted him and then moved deviously onto me.
Dennis, why dont you tell us your stance clearly.
You seem to be claiming this vlaue of free speach and yet you are not so sure either.
You atheists adding all sorts to threats against freedom of speech.
Come on, which is it? Free or not?
Its not that difficult a question.
-
[ Ray says before quoating Dennis]:
I wonder why.
More psycho slippery:
Dennis Campbell:
There is a value we hold in most western countries called “freedom of speech, notably absent in Iran and some other Islamic oountries, bu there is no such requirement that people need to listen to or read blather.
Instead of answering the questions, you cleverly deflected it.
You may be a Doc, but I’m from God. I can see your monkey tactics from this distance.
To remind everyone, it was about this “value” of yours that I was asking about. I am getting contradicdictory answers from Atheists. Why?
It seems some of you have thicker skin while other have skin similiar to Iranians.
-
[ Ray repeats and quotes Atheists]
To remind everyone, it was about this “value” of yours that I was asking about.
I am getting contradicdictory answers from Atheists.
Why?
CalmWind:
They don’t own the site and therefore don’t have the power to decide what can and can not be published.
So they can say: Post anything rays! That doesn’t mean you wouldn’t be banned by the owner however much we would stand on your side.
Ah I see. The powerful Atheists are similiar to powerful Iranian authorities. Its clear now. Thanks.
Furthermore I think you are confusing freedom of speech with freedom of thought.
Please, CalmWind. Read my question. It was NOT about thinking. It was about writing and speaking.
While you can think whatever you like, freedom of speech has never been without rules. You are not protected by the freedom to speak, when making death threats for example. If stopping you from speaking freely would prevent harm to others, I and others would have the right to do so.
I agree.
So, you are saying that Atheists cannot get on a moral high horse and claim they have total freedom of speech. There is no such horse. Its just their dream. The monkey riders are deluded.
Thanks.
Also,
Would you explain what exactly earns a ban here ?
Please give examples
-
eudemonia said you atheists have different values. you dont believe in the same thing?
So, one atheist might say its ok to properly kiss in public, while another might say its disgusting and immoral ?
Is that right?
-
You guys were beating this drum about “freedom of expression”, “freedom of expression”, “freedom of expression”, but, as soon as I asked you where exactly you stand, you all went wobbly like women.
Its clear that you guys are all over the show. You Atheists have not yet got your story straight.
Once you do, let me know. Then we can talk about it properly.
Maybe its not for Atheists, but this freedom of speech is an important matter for me.
[Andrew bans Ray from discussions on Reason Project Forum]:
Andrew:
You’re suspended until further notice.
bigredfutbol:
Well done.
Skipshot:
You’ve done the right thing by putting that child on a time-out.
Dennis Campbell:
Andrew, If this is what I hope it is, a banning, please accept my heartfelt thanks...
this is supposed to be a forum to promote reason, secular values and rationality.
Dennis
Skipshot:
I wonder if rays sees the irony of his suspension as the conversation turned to ‘freedom of speech’.
Dennis Campbell:
No one said that freedom of speech is without qualifications. One of them being that that applies to public and not private venues.
-
[ Rays was banned by Atheists during the discussion of concept of freedom of speech]
_____________________________
True Believers
True Believers
22 February 2010
by Dennis Campbell :
“true believers,” TB tends strongly to:
engage in one-way discourses…
anyone not endorsing their particular belief… is promptly labeled some kind of idiot…
subsumed by the posited ideology…
adopt a belief system and subsumes themselves into it…
those who’ve “fallen away” reviled and sometimes severely punished
actively “on the hunt” for both the “fallen,” and the uninitiated
one belief system can quite rapidly transfer his or her endorsements to another, even contradictory system
not inclined to laugh at themselves or of course their beliefs
Force and violence, even if proscribed by the ideology, are quite often employed
“Freedom”... is avoided at all costs
Does that sound familiar for anyone here?
Yes it does sound very familiar.
I could not have put it better myself. I witness it daily at the University, among students and among professors.
All these traits fit the true believers in Evolution Tale, i.e. the Atheists, like a glove.
1. Atheists are the first to call God followers “deluded fools and idiots”. Dawkins does it more than Harris. Philosophers call him arrogant.
2. Atheists preach their own secular godless ideology and also their Monkey Story in many Ad Campaigns on buses and in anti-religion gatherings.
Atheists are like wild wolves hunting the tamed sheep.
I can go on and give many more examples of how all those vices are exact descriptions of the so-called “educated” godless squad.
But I think, for a neutral thinker, no illustration is necessary. Hyporcasy is crystal clear.
However, for the biased and intellectually deficient, I have sited just two examples.
[ No answers from Atheists to Ray's rebuttel of Dennis.]
_____________________
22 February 2010
by Dennis Campbell :
“true believers,” TB tends strongly to:
engage in one-way discourses…
anyone not endorsing their particular belief… is promptly labeled some kind of idiot…
subsumed by the posited ideology…
adopt a belief system and subsumes themselves into it…
those who’ve “fallen away” reviled and sometimes severely punished
actively “on the hunt” for both the “fallen,” and the uninitiated
one belief system can quite rapidly transfer his or her endorsements to another, even contradictory system
not inclined to laugh at themselves or of course their beliefs
Force and violence, even if proscribed by the ideology, are quite often employed
“Freedom”... is avoided at all costs
Does that sound familiar for anyone here?
Yes it does sound very familiar.
I could not have put it better myself. I witness it daily at the University, among students and among professors.
All these traits fit the true believers in Evolution Tale, i.e. the Atheists, like a glove.
1. Atheists are the first to call God followers “deluded fools and idiots”. Dawkins does it more than Harris. Philosophers call him arrogant.
2. Atheists preach their own secular godless ideology and also their Monkey Story in many Ad Campaigns on buses and in anti-religion gatherings.
Atheists are like wild wolves hunting the tamed sheep.
I can go on and give many more examples of how all those vices are exact descriptions of the so-called “educated” godless squad.
But I think, for a neutral thinker, no illustration is necessary. Hyporcasy is crystal clear.
However, for the biased and intellectually deficient, I have sited just two examples.
[ No answers from Atheists to Ray's rebuttel of Dennis.]
_____________________
delusions
-
Delusions of Atheists
The classic Atheists hope is stated in this sentence:
“Ultimately, faith and it’s culture will die because the human intellect simply cannot reconcile it to itself.”
http://www.reasonproject.org/forum/viewthread/14438/
The key word there is “Ultimately”.
“One day”. “Hopefully”. “Don’t worry, soon Atheists will rule the world”, and so on and on.
How many times have we heard this for past few centuries?
“Fellow Atheists, please don’t be affraid of a few Scientists who say in nature there is evidence of God.
Have faith. Wait a bit more. Don’t worry. One day, Biology will kill God. “
These deluded Atheist’s hopes of killing the Supreme Being simply shows that Atheists live in a fantasy.
Atheists too have a lot of faith in their “eventual” salvation in some distance future.
Atheist too look forward to a day when a miracle SHOULD happen.
The only difference between true Atheists and true Believers is that one believes that miracle HAS happened.
Believers have evidence. Atheists have nothing but conjecture and blind faith.
Think about it.
-
[many replies from atheists, most off topic and personal attacking Ray]
-
mikaelec :
This is my first viewing of this forum. I’ve been a member for some time, but only to subscribe to the news feed.
But after reading some random debates around the internet, I got somewhat frustrated over the ignorant and simplistic rantings, of both believers and atheists. So I thought to myself, ought to check out this forum for some relief, assuming that it would be different.
After reading this thread, oh boy was I wrong.
The original post, was of course dreadful. It didn’t have the least bit of argument and didn’t really offer much room for discussion. But seems more of a trolling attempt.
And then came the replies. They saddened me.
Now you know what Atheists are truly like. You simply didnt test them before. Read carefully their replies to your post.
When faced with embarrassment, Atheists resort to animal behaviour.
Those who dont are not true Atheists.
Dennis Campbell :
Ray cannot be “engaged,” like too many seen here of late(?) he seeks only an audience.
And you Dennis, want to only patronise.
Which is why you dont have in it you to hold a logical discussion.
We have seen how succesfully you have avoided debating directly with goldenhawk786, on a one to one basis.
You are supposed to be an “educated” atheist. You claimed to have anyalysied him. Yet you have not answered his challenge to debate any Atheist on this forum.
Very interesting.
The tickets for their show for which we’re the audience are over-priced, and the performance is really bad. But maybe seeing such lousy performers makes us appreciate talented people all the more. Still, not worth the price of admission.
That is an old Atheist chickening out excuse. Sad losers.
-
goldenhawk786 said he is up for one to one debate with any atheists, as long as there are no disturbeances from other people.
It is interesting that Atheists are running scared of goldenhawk786; and are giving all sort of girly excuses.
If Richard Dawkins was here, he would have been highly embarrased to see his flock hiding from a true believer of God.
Actually have, you have failed to read those posts. But then that kind of ignorance is never a problem for you, is it?
Please show me where you have held one to one debate with him in a separate thread, where no one except you and golddenhawk786 have debated any topic.
Provide the link here.
Thanks.
Not worth my time and effort to do your work for you. Hint: some threads are even titled for your convenience.
I see. Ok.
You have given no evidence when asked for it. Thats fair enough. Its your right.
Refusal to provide evidence does not mean it does not exist.
I will go and check it myself. This forum is not as big as the Universe.
[ Ray goes as make inquiries ]
Dennis, please have a drink of some water and take a seat on that sofa.
You wont like the truth which I might discover.
I asked goldenhawk to confirm your answer.
Universe is not really that big. You just need to ask those who fully know it.
--
[Ray comes back to earlier comments:]
Wow.
I didn’t expect to be validated this quick.
Dennis Campbell’s reply to mikaelec beautifully sums up what I had claimed on page 1 - the usual Atheist cop out:
“Wait a bit more. You “will” see it all later:
mikaelec :
The original post, was of course dreadful. It didn’t have the least bit of argument and didn’t really offer much room for discussion. But seems more of a trolling attempt.
And then came the replies. They saddened me.
They didn’t differ much from the original poster…
Mik,
Give it some time, and a lot of reading/scanning and perhaps some posts and posters will stand out for you…
hahahahaha
Dennis Campbell :
Although I cannot be completely sure, the probabilities as best I can judge, are so low that further discourse with you would be of interest, and so high that they’d be a waste of my time, that I’ll leave the pearls of your wisdom, such as they may be judged by others, to them. If that’s too oblique for you, then I’ll put it simply. You have little to contribute to this forum, apart from exemplifying the antithesis of reason, logic and skepticism, so absent applied forum rules, all I can do is put you on ignore. Bye bye. Dennis
The psycho pull out.
Fleeing from facts is another of classic Atheist tactics.
Its ok Dennis. Fear not, I wont get you.
True Believers never chase a running man.
This is another way in which Atheists and women have similiar nature:
Atheists are like girls, they get cold feet.
-
[Rays says before quoting Joselaso remarks]:
Workings of a closed mind:
This level of stupidity is acceptable only to women.
Joselaso :
What a stupid conversation!!!!
I am an atheist and dont believe in god. Period!
I dont believe in afterlife either, thats the end of the ride for me…
Now regarding religion and science.
If you show me proof that god really exists i wont believe in it anyway.
Why??
God is a religious concept, there is no way you can prove a phenomenon that is related to religion by science or logic.
The concept of god in the judeo-christian tradition needs faith to stand or else it will fall apart.
What can one say to this kind of child?
Oh I know…
Here is a lollypop for you to suck on as well, after the dog.
-
[ Atheists agree to run from further discussion on the topic ]:
-
Dennis Campbell :
Would also add that if and as these kinds of posters come to dominate this forum, which is supposed to advocate reason, rationality and secular values, then it becomes a much less interesting forum fo me. I can find this kind of crap in all sorts of places, I do not desire to have to deal with it here in any protracted way. But that’s just my opinion of course. Dennis
Joselaso:
I agree with you dennis and thanks for your advice regarding these individuals. We should talk about other things. This is a place for reason.
Dennis Campbell :
Hope this is a place for the promotion of reason, rationality and secular values, but frequent posters like Clay, GH, Brother Mario, and Rays seem to exempify the exact opposite, which I personally find increasingly irritating.
goldenhawk786 :
@Rays...i have challenged these atheists here for a debate on any topic YOU CHOOSE. but they cant and never will. ray, they are scared pathetic atheists who cant engage in a civilised discussion more than a few posts. i know the reason and so do most of them, however, now is not the appropriate time. for the record, this challenge is still open. i can talk about, islam, evolution, morals (atheists hate that topic) or anything else. provided you agree to the simply terms and conditions which i have mentioned before in this forum.
goldenhawk786,
Dennis imagines he has debated with you one to one.The poor doc is losing it.
Anyway,
Most Atheists often imagine things that are simply not there.
Why?
Life of failure with no real success, and add to that the fear of an impending doom of death, and you have Atheists who see things that are not there.
As the Quran describes the world of the atheist mind: “Darkness upon darkness”.
And as we all know, one sees things in darkness that are simply not there. I feel sorry for Atheists condition.
Atheists must get out of their doubtful existence. Only certainty sets the human free.
As Prophet Mohammed taught us:
Love of doubt destroys a healthy mind.
Dennis Campbell :
I thought Rays was suspended? Please, oh gods of the forum, answer my prayers and do so. If you do, I promise to reform myself into a better me. Dennis
[ Ray was banned from writing on Reason Project after demands by Dennis Campbell.]
_____________________________
Delusions of Atheists
The classic Atheists hope is stated in this sentence:
“Ultimately, faith and it’s culture will die because the human intellect simply cannot reconcile it to itself.”
http://www.reasonproject.org/forum/viewthread/14438/
The key word there is “Ultimately”.
“One day”. “Hopefully”. “Don’t worry, soon Atheists will rule the world”, and so on and on.
How many times have we heard this for past few centuries?
“Fellow Atheists, please don’t be affraid of a few Scientists who say in nature there is evidence of God.
Have faith. Wait a bit more. Don’t worry. One day, Biology will kill God. “
These deluded Atheist’s hopes of killing the Supreme Being simply shows that Atheists live in a fantasy.
Atheists too have a lot of faith in their “eventual” salvation in some distance future.
Atheist too look forward to a day when a miracle SHOULD happen.
The only difference between true Atheists and true Believers is that one believes that miracle HAS happened.
Believers have evidence. Atheists have nothing but conjecture and blind faith.
Think about it.
-
[many replies from atheists, most off topic and personal attacking Ray]
-
mikaelec :
This is my first viewing of this forum. I’ve been a member for some time, but only to subscribe to the news feed.
But after reading some random debates around the internet, I got somewhat frustrated over the ignorant and simplistic rantings, of both believers and atheists. So I thought to myself, ought to check out this forum for some relief, assuming that it would be different.
After reading this thread, oh boy was I wrong.
The original post, was of course dreadful. It didn’t have the least bit of argument and didn’t really offer much room for discussion. But seems more of a trolling attempt.
And then came the replies. They saddened me.
Now you know what Atheists are truly like. You simply didnt test them before. Read carefully their replies to your post.
When faced with embarrassment, Atheists resort to animal behaviour.
Those who dont are not true Atheists.
Dennis Campbell :
Ray cannot be “engaged,” like too many seen here of late(?) he seeks only an audience.
And you Dennis, want to only patronise.
Which is why you dont have in it you to hold a logical discussion.
We have seen how succesfully you have avoided debating directly with goldenhawk786, on a one to one basis.
You are supposed to be an “educated” atheist. You claimed to have anyalysied him. Yet you have not answered his challenge to debate any Atheist on this forum.
Very interesting.
The tickets for their show for which we’re the audience are over-priced, and the performance is really bad. But maybe seeing such lousy performers makes us appreciate talented people all the more. Still, not worth the price of admission.
That is an old Atheist chickening out excuse. Sad losers.
-
goldenhawk786 said he is up for one to one debate with any atheists, as long as there are no disturbeances from other people.
It is interesting that Atheists are running scared of goldenhawk786; and are giving all sort of girly excuses.
If Richard Dawkins was here, he would have been highly embarrased to see his flock hiding from a true believer of God.
Actually have, you have failed to read those posts. But then that kind of ignorance is never a problem for you, is it?
Please show me where you have held one to one debate with him in a separate thread, where no one except you and golddenhawk786 have debated any topic.
Provide the link here.
Thanks.
Not worth my time and effort to do your work for you. Hint: some threads are even titled for your convenience.
I see. Ok.
You have given no evidence when asked for it. Thats fair enough. Its your right.
Refusal to provide evidence does not mean it does not exist.
I will go and check it myself. This forum is not as big as the Universe.
[ Ray goes as make inquiries ]
Dennis, please have a drink of some water and take a seat on that sofa.
You wont like the truth which I might discover.
I asked goldenhawk to confirm your answer.
Universe is not really that big. You just need to ask those who fully know it.
--
[Ray comes back to earlier comments:]
Wow.
I didn’t expect to be validated this quick.
Dennis Campbell’s reply to mikaelec beautifully sums up what I had claimed on page 1 - the usual Atheist cop out:
“Wait a bit more. You “will” see it all later:
mikaelec :
The original post, was of course dreadful. It didn’t have the least bit of argument and didn’t really offer much room for discussion. But seems more of a trolling attempt.
And then came the replies. They saddened me.
They didn’t differ much from the original poster…
Mik,
Give it some time, and a lot of reading/scanning and perhaps some posts and posters will stand out for you…
hahahahaha
Dennis Campbell :
Although I cannot be completely sure, the probabilities as best I can judge, are so low that further discourse with you would be of interest, and so high that they’d be a waste of my time, that I’ll leave the pearls of your wisdom, such as they may be judged by others, to them. If that’s too oblique for you, then I’ll put it simply. You have little to contribute to this forum, apart from exemplifying the antithesis of reason, logic and skepticism, so absent applied forum rules, all I can do is put you on ignore. Bye bye. Dennis
The psycho pull out.
Fleeing from facts is another of classic Atheist tactics.
Its ok Dennis. Fear not, I wont get you.
True Believers never chase a running man.
This is another way in which Atheists and women have similiar nature:
Atheists are like girls, they get cold feet.
-
[Rays says before quoting Joselaso remarks]:
Workings of a closed mind:
This level of stupidity is acceptable only to women.
Joselaso :
What a stupid conversation!!!!
I am an atheist and dont believe in god. Period!
I dont believe in afterlife either, thats the end of the ride for me…
Now regarding religion and science.
If you show me proof that god really exists i wont believe in it anyway.
Why??
God is a religious concept, there is no way you can prove a phenomenon that is related to religion by science or logic.
The concept of god in the judeo-christian tradition needs faith to stand or else it will fall apart.
What can one say to this kind of child?
Oh I know…
Here is a lollypop for you to suck on as well, after the dog.
-
[ Atheists agree to run from further discussion on the topic ]:
-
Dennis Campbell :
Would also add that if and as these kinds of posters come to dominate this forum, which is supposed to advocate reason, rationality and secular values, then it becomes a much less interesting forum fo me. I can find this kind of crap in all sorts of places, I do not desire to have to deal with it here in any protracted way. But that’s just my opinion of course. Dennis
Joselaso:
I agree with you dennis and thanks for your advice regarding these individuals. We should talk about other things. This is a place for reason.
Dennis Campbell :
Hope this is a place for the promotion of reason, rationality and secular values, but frequent posters like Clay, GH, Brother Mario, and Rays seem to exempify the exact opposite, which I personally find increasingly irritating.
goldenhawk786 :
@Rays...i have challenged these atheists here for a debate on any topic YOU CHOOSE. but they cant and never will. ray, they are scared pathetic atheists who cant engage in a civilised discussion more than a few posts. i know the reason and so do most of them, however, now is not the appropriate time. for the record, this challenge is still open. i can talk about, islam, evolution, morals (atheists hate that topic) or anything else. provided you agree to the simply terms and conditions which i have mentioned before in this forum.
goldenhawk786,
Dennis imagines he has debated with you one to one.The poor doc is losing it.
Anyway,
Most Atheists often imagine things that are simply not there.
Why?
Life of failure with no real success, and add to that the fear of an impending doom of death, and you have Atheists who see things that are not there.
As the Quran describes the world of the atheist mind: “Darkness upon darkness”.
And as we all know, one sees things in darkness that are simply not there. I feel sorry for Atheists condition.
Atheists must get out of their doubtful existence. Only certainty sets the human free.
As Prophet Mohammed taught us:
Love of doubt destroys a healthy mind.
Dennis Campbell :
I thought Rays was suspended? Please, oh gods of the forum, answer my prayers and do so. If you do, I promise to reform myself into a better me. Dennis
[ Ray was banned from writing on Reason Project after demands by Dennis Campbell.]
_____________________________
Atheists Flee Reason
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A muslim member ray asks atheists for what reason is Islam object of hatred in US.
No good reason to hate Islam
by rays:
Posted: 30 December 2009 06:58 AM
[Words by ray are in bold, words of goldenhawk786 are in italics.]
Since the terrorists attacks in New York on
September 11, 2001 our television and newspapers have done a pretty good job at creating hatred of Islam inside many people.
Only a few thinking people survive this bombardment of propaganda.
I am sure some of you hate Islam. This topic is primarily for you. Those members who do not hate Islam as a religion, are also requested to take part.
As this forum is called a REASON PROJECT, lets see how reasonable we all are.
I would like to put a question to all you guys:
If you hate Islam, then please provide one good reason for this hatred.
[Atheists reply and rays gives his response:]
Thanks guys.
I am sure as atheists, you are not friendly to any religion that accepts God.
But lets be frank here; we all know that many of you are particularly nasty towards Islam.
I just wanted to know what makes Islam a target of your disgust.
Please do carry on.
Give just ONE VALID REASON as to why you hate Islam.
Here are a few answers you have provided so far:
1. bigredfutbol and screwtape both says they hate Islam because it is the most fundamentalist, intolerant, and violent religion.
2. Tilberian says he hates Islam because it allows death penalty for women who commit adultery and shame the family.
3. Skipshot says he hates Islam because it scare its followers into giving up their full freedom of expression.
My Responses:
1. Counting only the bodybags, I believe you would agree that U.S. Military has more graves to its credit than all religions put together.
2. Bible allows capital punishment of stoning to death for adulterous men and women. Why are you picking only on Islam?
3. Even in 21st century, no nation on earth allows complete liberty to its people. If you bother to take a close look at U.S., it is fast becoming a police state.
[More replies from Atheists:]
Skipshot:
I’m getting the sinking feeling this discussion will go nowhere since reasons have already been offered.
Yes, but I asked for VALID reasons. So far, the women have only given me their fantacies.
eudemonia:
What reasons presented were INVALID?
Lets compare disdain for Christianity vs disdain for Islam.
Who is the better role model to base a religious worldview on-Jesus or Mohammed?
I’ll let you INVALIDATE my comment.
Some Western thinkers have said that the world needs a man like Mohammed. He has been rated world’s most influential figure.
can zen:
It is beyond me why you even have to ask this question, rays.
But, since you asked: I hate islam because it is filled with hatred.
Bob
Wow. Is that a good reason or the best reason? Also tell me, how full are you with hatred?
bigredfutbol:
I hate pointless, disingenuous threads started by agenda-wielding trolls who have no interest in open debate.
Yes Maam.
Come on guys. Agree that this topic is useless because Miss Good Looks says its pointless. She has something else on her mind.
arbiter:
You said: "As this forum is called a REASON PROJECT, lets see how reasonable we all are."
Does this mean you are testing yourself?
It is obvious that your feeble arguments have crumbled before this small army of freethinkers.
Perhaps you do not understand the definition of reason and its practice in life choices. Every single person who has responded to your thread has destroyed your ignorant topic title and your weak defense of it.
Oh, you have appointed yourself judge for everyone.
Ok then. Yes your honour. You MUST be right.
Army of freethinkers yes. But what is needed is army of reasonable thinkers.
Anybody can freethink. No restrictions. Think whatever. Do whatever. And the result is often similar to Iraq War, Vietnam War, 9/11, Monica Lewinsky affair… all due to “freethinking”, but not CORRECT THINKING.
Which is why I asked for VALID REASONS.
Maybe you dont know what “valid” is.
Wcollins260:
Is it me, or are these these two Muslim fellows simply horrible at making arguments?
bigredfutbol:
Are you kidding me—look above. He dismissed several of us by calling us girls! That’s awesome! I haven’t seen that kind of rhetorical brilliance since 7th-grade gym class. Well played, rays!
Thanks kid.
Ok. Sorry about the delay. I can only come online once in a while. My job gives me very little time off work.
Anyway,
You guys have disappointed me.
All you have been saying repeatedly is: “I dont like it… I dont like it.” Thats how 13 year old chicks talk who have just started their periods.
Alright, maybe I was a bit hard on you. I will let you grow up, [ or rather “EVOLVE” ], before I ask such a difficult question.
I gave you benefit of the doubt. I thought you Atheists were sharp. I guess learn something new everyday.
I take it that beside your prejuidices, you cannot rationally justify one valid cause to dislike Islam.
All that you gave me were things, which, you either do yourself, or, things which your leaders advocate [eg violence], or things that your secular nations and government are enganed in as well.
Yet, conveniently, you switch off to this fact and play the innocent.
I guess that when it comes Atheists hating believers, its back to “Suspension of Disbelief”.
Atheists often use this device to justify the use of invalid claims against Islam. Just observe it yourself.
[Atheists respond with more answers:]
unsmoked:
you’d have to prove that the man who recently tried to blow up the plane over Detroit stands alone - that there are not hundreds more like him waiting for their chance to commit suicide while murdering non-Muslims and damaging non-Muslim society.
Is that a reasonable demand?
Thats exactly what Al Qaeda type of mentality. Those Wahhabis also ask the American people to PROVE that the 50, or so, U.S. Marines who tortured prisoners in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo were the only ones, and that there are NOT hundreds more like them waiting for their chance to murder and waterboard muslims in secret black site detention camps.
Can you see your error now? If not then, you and bin Laden would get along fine. You have similiar illogical thinking.
eudemonia:
Is it not valid to dislke a religion who’s main character was a pedophile and a murderer and who we must believe flew to heaven on a white horse?
You would have to prove that such accusation are indeed valid. Can you?
When a judge in Texas execute a criminal, the relatives sometimes accuses the court of murdering their kin.
In 19th century USA, girls use to marry at age 12 .
Even today, in some U.S. states and otjher non-muslim countries, you can still wed at 14 and even younger. Do you hate these people too?
I think you most of you guys dont think before opening your mouth. This reveals your level of intellect.
Come on please, I am waiting for some good valid reasons. If you cant think of any just admit it instead of embarrassing replies.
I asked for “valid reason” that anyone has to hate Islam.
This is what I got back:
You decide for yourselves whether these are “VALID REASONS”.
1. Religion, including Islam, makes people stupid. That alone is VALID enough to dislike it.
2. we really needn’t elaborate beyond a single word ... “sick!”
3. You base your life on an irrational, violent, man made fairytale and you complain that no one can give you one rational reason not to.
And this is supposed to be a “REASON PROJECT”.
God help us all.
goodgraydrab:
Your above post is another valid reason. Distortion of reality to suit your own purpose.
So, you also hate democracy because politicians lie. And thats why you also hate Islam because you think its adherent twist the facts?
For you thats a VALID reason to hate a world ideology?
May the heavens help us all.
You see, this type of replies given above all reminds of the 1995 Cameron Diaz film - “THE LAST SUPPER” - where the a group of Democrat liberals execute the invited guests one by one - first for only major crimes - and then, for absolutely any slip up on the dinner table.
They too had a “reason project” going. Its a food for mind film noir. Brilliant stuff.
I urge you guys to all watch that movie and then think of this topic.
I may be wrong in this but some of you, dear members, of the “REASON PROJECT” appear to be in the similar if not the same boat as those intellectuals in the film.
I highly recommend it for those who think they have a VALID reason to hate Islam.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Supper_(1995_film)
Gila Guerilla:
I can only speak for myself, but what I hate to see in others, I also hate in myself. Furthermore if leaders were to do these things, (whatever they may be), then I would hate to see it in them too. My guess is that rational thinkers, (and atheists are generally included in that), would feel the same. It has been pointed out in this thread, that the Reason Project community do think like that – ie. bad is bad wherever it may be. The problem might just stem from the possibility that we don’t all agree on what counts as being “bad”, (or what counts as being “good”).
I am unsure as to what the word hate actually means in this thread. In my case, it means that I see some things that I dislike, and would rather see eliminated. My tool of choice for eliminating such things would be reasoning. My level of feeling about this is strong. As far as Islam is concerned, if it allowed people to be truly free – even to think “incorrectly”, then it, (Islam), would be OK by me. If it could be acceptable to Muslims that I be atheist, and that their fellow Muslims could be free – eg. in how they dress, (or whatever), then Islam would be OK. I wouldn’t join its ranks, but then I don’t demand that anyone agree with me.
I can’t help thinking that if someone wanted to force me to be or think a certain way, then I’d owe it to myself to resist with the necessary resistive force, in kind, (basing my own position on my own reasoning and reasonableness).
That was a beautiful and reasonable reply Gila. I am with you on what you have stated.
I as a fervent muslim and a thinking believer can tell you, as well as everyone else, that Islam does allow people to be free; and, even to reject God if they so chose. Also, it is acceptable to me, that you remain an atheist if you so chose.
My holy book and authority, the Quran, like any other Good Constitution, and Bill of Rights, ensures certain freedom. People can believe and disbelieve whatever they like.
However, Quran does places some limits on certain things which people can and cannot do. This is not irrational. All Constitutions restrict some behavior.
There can never be total absolute freedom of conduct for the population - for this would be anarchy.
Gila Guerilla:
[GAD you said to ray]: "Would you not agree that if Islam is an irrational, violent, man made fairytale that that would be a valid reason?
I would, IF given the truth of the above highlighted if. Of course, rays does not accept the truth of the if in the conditional statement above.
Thank you Gila. You have taken trouble to point out to the gentleman the obvious flaw in his so-called valid reason. I believe you can see the errors of logic in the answers given by most members. But there is no need to go through all of them.
I think you know well how much patience one needs to show for peace to prevail.
goldenhawk786:
anyway, back to the question. where do you get your morels from?
thats where you atheists have it all wrong. you try to tip toe against this point and always try to evade by bringing other stuff into the debate. well it wont wash with me. well here is what i think. you athiests just follow your own morel compass. if it was left to you, this world would be in a right mess. you have no answer to this question. if i lived in your world, i can commit theft, rape, murder, and you wont be able to judge me because i will be following my own “moral” compass. you wont be able to pass any judgement on me because i would simply say that i think what i do is right. you wont be able to refute me because YOU have no universal right or wrong book. according to you evolutionists, might is right. heck, its the survival of the fittest right ?
unsmoked said:
Atheists are a minority in the world population. The world is being run by religious people and it is 'in a right mess.' The atheist's answer to this question is to try the way suggested by most scientists. (Most scientists are atheists).
goldenhawk786:
i agree that athiests are a minority. and they should not have the power like stalin did. where is your evidence that most scientists are athiets ?
unsmoked said:
Religious people, as you know, have been committing theft, rape, and murder since religion began. Often they use their holy books to justify their theft, rape, and murder. "An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth!" (moral justification for revenge), and so forth. Check out Numbers 31 in the Old Testament - 'Moses War Against the Midians.' There you will find organized theft, rape, and slaughter - thousands of women and children - POW's - murdered in cold blood.
goldenhawk786:
are you telling me, atheists dont commit murder and rape ? dont say religious people have be doing evil. its not religious people but mankind in general. ask your atheist master stalin what he did when he came to power. so dont act as if atheists are all angels.
unsmoked said:
It wouldn't surprise me if a poll showed that most criminals and war-mongers claimed to be religious, and it wouldn't surprise me to learn that most Peace Corp workers, and most people who are trying to save the environment are atheists.
goldenhawk786:
where did you get this information from? let me tell you something about the 20th century mate, which we have just left behind us. it was a century of war and conflict, leading to disasters, pain, massacres, poverty, and enormous destruction. Millions of people were killed, massacred, abandoned to hunger and death, and left without home or shelter, protection, or support. And all for nothing: in the name of serving deviant ideologies like yours. Millions were left exposed to inhuman treatment that not even animals should be allowed to suffer. On nearly every occasion there were despots' and dictators' signatures beneath all the suffering and disasters: Stalin, Lenin, T rotsky, Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler, Mussolini, Franco… .you want me to carry on ?
unsmoked said:
Atheist scientists are telling us that the human population explosion is leading us toward global disaster - that the burning of fossil fuels and the destruction of the rain forests are leading us toward global disaster - wars caused by drought, famine, disease and whole populations being displaced. Most religious people think it's okay to have large families; okay to use up the planet - deplete everything like a plague of locusts. Everything is here for humans to use up, right? Caring for the planet will get you nowhere, right? What matters is to accept your holy book, your prophet, as the one true religion, right?
goldenhawk786:
well its survival of the fittest according to you athiests right? who are you to judge whether to have a large family is wrong? how does it give you the right to decide that is wrong?
well why care for the planet when i am going to be dead and dust to dust according to you right ? i maight as well be selfish and live my life to the full as much as i can even if its the cost to the planet. you cant say its wrong can you? you have no rule book. thats what you athiests fail to understand.
unsmoked said:
You agree that atheists are a minority. You agree that mankind in general is religious. Please follow your own reasoning - mankind in general is religious, and mankind in general is doing evil.
Please take two minutes to check this web page on the subject of over-population and the destruction of the environment. Why does your religious sense of morality prevent you from seeing that humans are fouling their own nest? Since most of the world is Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, Hindu - why have these billions of religious people and their leaders been unable to prevent the world’s ecosystems from collapsing? Do you think it is atheists who are destroying the fisheries and rain forests? Is it the small percentage of atheists around the world who are causing global harming?
goldenhawk786:
i didnt say mankind is religious. most of mankind is currupt becuase they are not following the words of allah, they can call themelves religious but most of them are perverted transgressors.it is the west that is destorying the earth and not islam. islam is against the capitalist way of life as it capitalism encourges greed and does not give a monkeys about the consequences. thats one of the reasons the west sees islam as a danger because its in direct contradiction with the “values” of the west.
-
teuchter said:
Between blowing themselves up and firing rockets from drones at each other, I’m amazed that these crusaders and jihadists have time to come up with an agreement that EVERYONE (presumably including themselves) would just love to rape, pillage and loot but god—no allah—no jesus—- no muhamad—DIE YOU SCURRILOUS BLASPHEMER!—NO YOU DIE, INFIDEL SILLY BILLY MONKEY DOG GOAT!
I’m sorry. Where was I? Oh yeah, these religious types seem to think that everyone wants to rape and pillage, and only their own peculiar diety puts the brakes on this destructive behavior. Quite aside from raising questions about the desires of anyone making this argument, it wholly ignores the role of evolution, and the adaptive benefits of the inherent capacity for cooperation and empathy. Without necessity of mythology. See Bonobos, for example.
goldenhawk786:
like allah says in the holy quran that man is made weak. so therefore i agree with that statement in the holy book. man needs to be disaplined. i dont commit evil acts because i fear god. you guys (in the general sense) dont fear god but fear the law, otherwise given half a chance, some of you would love to be rulers like genghis khan or stalin. you athiests think that this is only life for you so why not make full use of it right? there are no consequences, hence nothing to worry about right ? do what you want (kill, rape, goto war etc…) and live life to the full
-
eudemonia said:
Lets pretend you are right though.
Where did God get his morals from?
goldenhawk786:
what a stupid question. typical atheist. listen you idiot, he does not get his morals from anywhere because god is all knowing. but thats beyond your comprehension.
nonverbal said:
I’ll go ahead and ask an even stupider question. How do you assume God is good? And a follow-up question: If God is evil, what are the chances he’ll be honest with you in his descriptions of himself?
goldenhawk786:
@nonverbal….please tell me you are not serious, or are you being just being sarcastic ?
can zen said:
Of course he is being serious goldenhawk. Don’t you understand that Allah is All in your own imagination (and the imaginations of All those theists who have come before you)? Any properly skeptical atheist would ask a question like nonverbal did, this is just plain common sense. How do you know that Allah is good? He could be the most evil force in the universe for all we know... because Allah is just an imaginary being, get it?
allah is not in my imagination. i dont live in a fantasy world and deny facts unlike you lot. God being evil ? perish the thought ! look at the teachings of the holy quran and see how peaceful it is. how much it promotes good. how it deals in justice. how it promotes peace and harmony. if all this is evil to you, then i dont know what good is ! but you guys dont WANT read or hear all these statements i have mentioned i wonder who is being brainwashed.
can zen said:
Yes there is wisdom in the Quran - it is the wisdom of a history of a certain civilization, but it has nothing to do with gods or supernatural beings. Yes, America has been one of the worst terrorist organizations every created by human beings, but the Nazis were much, much worse, and the Soviets were at least as horrible as the worst of the American atrocities. But those days of madness are passing goldenhawk, thankfully.
atheism ignorance strikes again !!!! islam is a way of life. not just about historical references. its teachings are for everyone, rich, poor, kings, paupers, different cultures etc…all trying to better the life of mankind, but this is way to much for your monkey brain. let me ask you something, forget reading the whole quran, as one should do so to form an opinion, but i bet you have not read ANY full chapter of the quran have you ? then you makes claims about this and that when you know nothing about the quran ! all you guys do is base your evidence from hearsay, unreliable and biased sources. if this was a court of law and islam was on trial, i would love to have YOU as the prosecutor. not only i would win so easily, but you would also get fined also for wasting the courts time !
-
ok, to all you idiots (like carl zen) who think that the holy prophet muhammad (S) was nothig but a tribal warrior who was just killing people to unite the tribes for his own personal good. i really dont know where you got this idea, but it clearly demonstrates you know nothng abou this holy peronality. he was the most peace loving person ever existed (and i am not exagaerting here). he did unite the tribes of arabia, not through tyranny or cunning, but by his preaching and his exhalted character. yes there were wars, but if you bother to study them, they were all fought in self defence and nothing more unlike your western policy of pre emtive strikes.
-
No Atheist can successfully answer that clear and logical point on moral sources, goldenhawk786.
That is why they hate believers because they have a solid reference point.
Without a reference point there can be nothing, not even scientific research, nor a single expreriment.
Everybody gets the point of that POINT, but it hurts only the godless monkeys.
Debates on moral values are too much for Atheists to handle. They always run away.
-
The title of this thread was very clear. Even a ten year old human child can understand it.
I said human child. Not a chimp.
It is very interesting to see once again that when Atheists cannot answer a question in a reasonable manner, they divert to another subject which is easy for them.
Monkeys are like children. That is why they mess around. And that is why they are never taken seriously. They would be so much happier if they remained in a jungle. What they are doing in human communities, I dont know. Well, we have zoos for them here to keep them happy.
-
Every stupid excuse that you Atheists have given against God, or against His perfect book the Holy Quran, or against His perfect Messenger Prophet Mohammed... all such absurd statements of yours have been shown to you to be nothing but wishes of your irrational and brainwashed thinking.
Me and goldenkawk786 have laid out many logical arguments and clear scientific evidence which proves that Atheists hatred of Islam is nothing but a stupid excuse.
goldenhawk786 has particulary tried to reason with you Atheists, but you people simply refuse to open your mind to logic and real scientific facts.
It is as if you Atheists LIKE being stupid. You appears that way to every believer of God.
God can read the mind of Atheists. He revelaed in teh Quran that Atheists hate God, because they hate anything that goes against their wishes.
That is worst blindness of all. Seeing you see not. Hearing you hear not. Deaf and blind even when your ears and eyes are perfect.
When I listen to your silly excuses against God, it confirms your depth of delusions.
So far, I have not seen one sound reason from Atheists against anything that the holy Quran teaches.
You are only giviing me your personal feelings. Well, I dont give a damn about your personal feelings.
Give me valid reasons. You have so far failed to provide a single one.
You Atheists are no different from a silly woman who says I dont like brown lipstick, and all who do, are crazy.
That is your level of mentality. Childish.
You Atheists just love to cling on to your false hopes and unproven theories.
It is shocking for me to see that Atheists keep trying to find comfort in things they know to be uncertain.
Wake up.
-
goldenhawk786,
Just watch, more evasive replies coming from Atheists.
In this thread, I simply asked a clear question to those who hate God and his religion of Islam.
Any thinking person would notice how Atheists cannot tackle an easy straightforward questions.
Just test the primates and see for yourself.
Logic and facts seem to cause pain to the Atheists.
eudemonia:
Atheists have no theories and do not have to prove anything idiot wind. We simply believe their are no God(s), because there has never been any evidence that there are God(s)
Are you capable of even understanding the basis of this discussion? If not take your ball and go home.
What do you mean Atheists have no theories?
What do you call that Monkey Tale which you have invented?
Scientists cannot even agree if its crap, true, or just a wishful thiking of a deluded mind.
[ ray was banned from debating with Atheists after this post. ]
eudemonia:
Thats called the Theory of Evolution dumb fuck, and it has nothing to do with Atheism. Evolution is a scientific theory and fact, supported by mountains of observed, testable, falsifiable evidence, complied over a couple of hundred years now.
Atheism is not a theory. It is simply the nonbelief in God(s)
Maybe you should understand what things are before you try to argue against them. Do you understand the difference between science and faith even?
What the fuck are you even doing here and who lets you use their keyboard?
A muslim member ray asks atheists for what reason is Islam object of hatred in US.
No good reason to hate Islam
by rays:
Posted: 30 December 2009 06:58 AM
[Words by ray are in bold, words of goldenhawk786 are in italics.]
Since the terrorists attacks in New York on
September 11, 2001 our television and newspapers have done a pretty good job at creating hatred of Islam inside many people.
Only a few thinking people survive this bombardment of propaganda.
I am sure some of you hate Islam. This topic is primarily for you. Those members who do not hate Islam as a religion, are also requested to take part.
As this forum is called a REASON PROJECT, lets see how reasonable we all are.
I would like to put a question to all you guys:
If you hate Islam, then please provide one good reason for this hatred.
[Atheists reply and rays gives his response:]
Thanks guys.
I am sure as atheists, you are not friendly to any religion that accepts God.
But lets be frank here; we all know that many of you are particularly nasty towards Islam.
I just wanted to know what makes Islam a target of your disgust.
Please do carry on.
Give just ONE VALID REASON as to why you hate Islam.
Here are a few answers you have provided so far:
1. bigredfutbol and screwtape both says they hate Islam because it is the most fundamentalist, intolerant, and violent religion.
2. Tilberian says he hates Islam because it allows death penalty for women who commit adultery and shame the family.
3. Skipshot says he hates Islam because it scare its followers into giving up their full freedom of expression.
My Responses:
1. Counting only the bodybags, I believe you would agree that U.S. Military has more graves to its credit than all religions put together.
2. Bible allows capital punishment of stoning to death for adulterous men and women. Why are you picking only on Islam?
3. Even in 21st century, no nation on earth allows complete liberty to its people. If you bother to take a close look at U.S., it is fast becoming a police state.
[More replies from Atheists:]
Skipshot:
I’m getting the sinking feeling this discussion will go nowhere since reasons have already been offered.
Yes, but I asked for VALID reasons. So far, the women have only given me their fantacies.
eudemonia:
What reasons presented were INVALID?
Lets compare disdain for Christianity vs disdain for Islam.
Who is the better role model to base a religious worldview on-Jesus or Mohammed?
I’ll let you INVALIDATE my comment.
Some Western thinkers have said that the world needs a man like Mohammed. He has been rated world’s most influential figure.
can zen:
It is beyond me why you even have to ask this question, rays.
But, since you asked: I hate islam because it is filled with hatred.
Bob
Wow. Is that a good reason or the best reason? Also tell me, how full are you with hatred?
bigredfutbol:
I hate pointless, disingenuous threads started by agenda-wielding trolls who have no interest in open debate.
Yes Maam.
Come on guys. Agree that this topic is useless because Miss Good Looks says its pointless. She has something else on her mind.
arbiter:
You said: "As this forum is called a REASON PROJECT, lets see how reasonable we all are."
Does this mean you are testing yourself?
It is obvious that your feeble arguments have crumbled before this small army of freethinkers.
Perhaps you do not understand the definition of reason and its practice in life choices. Every single person who has responded to your thread has destroyed your ignorant topic title and your weak defense of it.
Oh, you have appointed yourself judge for everyone.
Ok then. Yes your honour. You MUST be right.
Army of freethinkers yes. But what is needed is army of reasonable thinkers.
Anybody can freethink. No restrictions. Think whatever. Do whatever. And the result is often similar to Iraq War, Vietnam War, 9/11, Monica Lewinsky affair… all due to “freethinking”, but not CORRECT THINKING.
Which is why I asked for VALID REASONS.
Maybe you dont know what “valid” is.
Wcollins260:
Is it me, or are these these two Muslim fellows simply horrible at making arguments?
bigredfutbol:
Are you kidding me—look above. He dismissed several of us by calling us girls! That’s awesome! I haven’t seen that kind of rhetorical brilliance since 7th-grade gym class. Well played, rays!
Thanks kid.
Ok. Sorry about the delay. I can only come online once in a while. My job gives me very little time off work.
Anyway,
You guys have disappointed me.
All you have been saying repeatedly is: “I dont like it… I dont like it.” Thats how 13 year old chicks talk who have just started their periods.
Alright, maybe I was a bit hard on you. I will let you grow up, [ or rather “EVOLVE” ], before I ask such a difficult question.
I gave you benefit of the doubt. I thought you Atheists were sharp. I guess learn something new everyday.
I take it that beside your prejuidices, you cannot rationally justify one valid cause to dislike Islam.
All that you gave me were things, which, you either do yourself, or, things which your leaders advocate [eg violence], or things that your secular nations and government are enganed in as well.
Yet, conveniently, you switch off to this fact and play the innocent.
I guess that when it comes Atheists hating believers, its back to “Suspension of Disbelief”.
Atheists often use this device to justify the use of invalid claims against Islam. Just observe it yourself.
[Atheists respond with more answers:]
unsmoked:
you’d have to prove that the man who recently tried to blow up the plane over Detroit stands alone - that there are not hundreds more like him waiting for their chance to commit suicide while murdering non-Muslims and damaging non-Muslim society.
Is that a reasonable demand?
Thats exactly what Al Qaeda type of mentality. Those Wahhabis also ask the American people to PROVE that the 50, or so, U.S. Marines who tortured prisoners in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo were the only ones, and that there are NOT hundreds more like them waiting for their chance to murder and waterboard muslims in secret black site detention camps.
Can you see your error now? If not then, you and bin Laden would get along fine. You have similiar illogical thinking.
eudemonia:
Is it not valid to dislke a religion who’s main character was a pedophile and a murderer and who we must believe flew to heaven on a white horse?
You would have to prove that such accusation are indeed valid. Can you?
When a judge in Texas execute a criminal, the relatives sometimes accuses the court of murdering their kin.
In 19th century USA, girls use to marry at age 12 .
Even today, in some U.S. states and otjher non-muslim countries, you can still wed at 14 and even younger. Do you hate these people too?
I think you most of you guys dont think before opening your mouth. This reveals your level of intellect.
Come on please, I am waiting for some good valid reasons. If you cant think of any just admit it instead of embarrassing replies.
I asked for “valid reason” that anyone has to hate Islam.
This is what I got back:
You decide for yourselves whether these are “VALID REASONS”.
1. Religion, including Islam, makes people stupid. That alone is VALID enough to dislike it.
2. we really needn’t elaborate beyond a single word ... “sick!”
3. You base your life on an irrational, violent, man made fairytale and you complain that no one can give you one rational reason not to.
And this is supposed to be a “REASON PROJECT”.
God help us all.
goodgraydrab:
Your above post is another valid reason. Distortion of reality to suit your own purpose.
So, you also hate democracy because politicians lie. And thats why you also hate Islam because you think its adherent twist the facts?
For you thats a VALID reason to hate a world ideology?
May the heavens help us all.
You see, this type of replies given above all reminds of the 1995 Cameron Diaz film - “THE LAST SUPPER” - where the a group of Democrat liberals execute the invited guests one by one - first for only major crimes - and then, for absolutely any slip up on the dinner table.
They too had a “reason project” going. Its a food for mind film noir. Brilliant stuff.
I urge you guys to all watch that movie and then think of this topic.
I may be wrong in this but some of you, dear members, of the “REASON PROJECT” appear to be in the similar if not the same boat as those intellectuals in the film.
I highly recommend it for those who think they have a VALID reason to hate Islam.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Supper_(1995_film)
Gila Guerilla:
I can only speak for myself, but what I hate to see in others, I also hate in myself. Furthermore if leaders were to do these things, (whatever they may be), then I would hate to see it in them too. My guess is that rational thinkers, (and atheists are generally included in that), would feel the same. It has been pointed out in this thread, that the Reason Project community do think like that – ie. bad is bad wherever it may be. The problem might just stem from the possibility that we don’t all agree on what counts as being “bad”, (or what counts as being “good”).
I am unsure as to what the word hate actually means in this thread. In my case, it means that I see some things that I dislike, and would rather see eliminated. My tool of choice for eliminating such things would be reasoning. My level of feeling about this is strong. As far as Islam is concerned, if it allowed people to be truly free – even to think “incorrectly”, then it, (Islam), would be OK by me. If it could be acceptable to Muslims that I be atheist, and that their fellow Muslims could be free – eg. in how they dress, (or whatever), then Islam would be OK. I wouldn’t join its ranks, but then I don’t demand that anyone agree with me.
I can’t help thinking that if someone wanted to force me to be or think a certain way, then I’d owe it to myself to resist with the necessary resistive force, in kind, (basing my own position on my own reasoning and reasonableness).
That was a beautiful and reasonable reply Gila. I am with you on what you have stated.
I as a fervent muslim and a thinking believer can tell you, as well as everyone else, that Islam does allow people to be free; and, even to reject God if they so chose. Also, it is acceptable to me, that you remain an atheist if you so chose.
My holy book and authority, the Quran, like any other Good Constitution, and Bill of Rights, ensures certain freedom. People can believe and disbelieve whatever they like.
However, Quran does places some limits on certain things which people can and cannot do. This is not irrational. All Constitutions restrict some behavior.
There can never be total absolute freedom of conduct for the population - for this would be anarchy.
Gila Guerilla:
[GAD you said to ray]: "Would you not agree that if Islam is an irrational, violent, man made fairytale that that would be a valid reason?
I would, IF given the truth of the above highlighted if. Of course, rays does not accept the truth of the if in the conditional statement above.
Thank you Gila. You have taken trouble to point out to the gentleman the obvious flaw in his so-called valid reason. I believe you can see the errors of logic in the answers given by most members. But there is no need to go through all of them.
I think you know well how much patience one needs to show for peace to prevail.
goldenhawk786:
anyway, back to the question. where do you get your morels from?
thats where you atheists have it all wrong. you try to tip toe against this point and always try to evade by bringing other stuff into the debate. well it wont wash with me. well here is what i think. you athiests just follow your own morel compass. if it was left to you, this world would be in a right mess. you have no answer to this question. if i lived in your world, i can commit theft, rape, murder, and you wont be able to judge me because i will be following my own “moral” compass. you wont be able to pass any judgement on me because i would simply say that i think what i do is right. you wont be able to refute me because YOU have no universal right or wrong book. according to you evolutionists, might is right. heck, its the survival of the fittest right ?
unsmoked said:
Atheists are a minority in the world population. The world is being run by religious people and it is 'in a right mess.' The atheist's answer to this question is to try the way suggested by most scientists. (Most scientists are atheists).
goldenhawk786:
i agree that athiests are a minority. and they should not have the power like stalin did. where is your evidence that most scientists are athiets ?
unsmoked said:
Religious people, as you know, have been committing theft, rape, and murder since religion began. Often they use their holy books to justify their theft, rape, and murder. "An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth!" (moral justification for revenge), and so forth. Check out Numbers 31 in the Old Testament - 'Moses War Against the Midians.' There you will find organized theft, rape, and slaughter - thousands of women and children - POW's - murdered in cold blood.
goldenhawk786:
are you telling me, atheists dont commit murder and rape ? dont say religious people have be doing evil. its not religious people but mankind in general. ask your atheist master stalin what he did when he came to power. so dont act as if atheists are all angels.
unsmoked said:
It wouldn't surprise me if a poll showed that most criminals and war-mongers claimed to be religious, and it wouldn't surprise me to learn that most Peace Corp workers, and most people who are trying to save the environment are atheists.
goldenhawk786:
where did you get this information from? let me tell you something about the 20th century mate, which we have just left behind us. it was a century of war and conflict, leading to disasters, pain, massacres, poverty, and enormous destruction. Millions of people were killed, massacred, abandoned to hunger and death, and left without home or shelter, protection, or support. And all for nothing: in the name of serving deviant ideologies like yours. Millions were left exposed to inhuman treatment that not even animals should be allowed to suffer. On nearly every occasion there were despots' and dictators' signatures beneath all the suffering and disasters: Stalin, Lenin, T rotsky, Mao, Pol Pot, Hitler, Mussolini, Franco… .you want me to carry on ?
unsmoked said:
Atheist scientists are telling us that the human population explosion is leading us toward global disaster - that the burning of fossil fuels and the destruction of the rain forests are leading us toward global disaster - wars caused by drought, famine, disease and whole populations being displaced. Most religious people think it's okay to have large families; okay to use up the planet - deplete everything like a plague of locusts. Everything is here for humans to use up, right? Caring for the planet will get you nowhere, right? What matters is to accept your holy book, your prophet, as the one true religion, right?
goldenhawk786:
well its survival of the fittest according to you athiests right? who are you to judge whether to have a large family is wrong? how does it give you the right to decide that is wrong?
well why care for the planet when i am going to be dead and dust to dust according to you right ? i maight as well be selfish and live my life to the full as much as i can even if its the cost to the planet. you cant say its wrong can you? you have no rule book. thats what you athiests fail to understand.
unsmoked said:
You agree that atheists are a minority. You agree that mankind in general is religious. Please follow your own reasoning - mankind in general is religious, and mankind in general is doing evil.
Please take two minutes to check this web page on the subject of over-population and the destruction of the environment. Why does your religious sense of morality prevent you from seeing that humans are fouling their own nest? Since most of the world is Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, Hindu - why have these billions of religious people and their leaders been unable to prevent the world’s ecosystems from collapsing? Do you think it is atheists who are destroying the fisheries and rain forests? Is it the small percentage of atheists around the world who are causing global harming?
goldenhawk786:
i didnt say mankind is religious. most of mankind is currupt becuase they are not following the words of allah, they can call themelves religious but most of them are perverted transgressors.it is the west that is destorying the earth and not islam. islam is against the capitalist way of life as it capitalism encourges greed and does not give a monkeys about the consequences. thats one of the reasons the west sees islam as a danger because its in direct contradiction with the “values” of the west.
-
teuchter said:
Between blowing themselves up and firing rockets from drones at each other, I’m amazed that these crusaders and jihadists have time to come up with an agreement that EVERYONE (presumably including themselves) would just love to rape, pillage and loot but god—no allah—no jesus—- no muhamad—DIE YOU SCURRILOUS BLASPHEMER!—NO YOU DIE, INFIDEL SILLY BILLY MONKEY DOG GOAT!
I’m sorry. Where was I? Oh yeah, these religious types seem to think that everyone wants to rape and pillage, and only their own peculiar diety puts the brakes on this destructive behavior. Quite aside from raising questions about the desires of anyone making this argument, it wholly ignores the role of evolution, and the adaptive benefits of the inherent capacity for cooperation and empathy. Without necessity of mythology. See Bonobos, for example.
goldenhawk786:
like allah says in the holy quran that man is made weak. so therefore i agree with that statement in the holy book. man needs to be disaplined. i dont commit evil acts because i fear god. you guys (in the general sense) dont fear god but fear the law, otherwise given half a chance, some of you would love to be rulers like genghis khan or stalin. you athiests think that this is only life for you so why not make full use of it right? there are no consequences, hence nothing to worry about right ? do what you want (kill, rape, goto war etc…) and live life to the full
-
eudemonia said:
Lets pretend you are right though.
Where did God get his morals from?
goldenhawk786:
what a stupid question. typical atheist. listen you idiot, he does not get his morals from anywhere because god is all knowing. but thats beyond your comprehension.
nonverbal said:
I’ll go ahead and ask an even stupider question. How do you assume God is good? And a follow-up question: If God is evil, what are the chances he’ll be honest with you in his descriptions of himself?
goldenhawk786:
@nonverbal….please tell me you are not serious, or are you being just being sarcastic ?
can zen said:
Of course he is being serious goldenhawk. Don’t you understand that Allah is All in your own imagination (and the imaginations of All those theists who have come before you)? Any properly skeptical atheist would ask a question like nonverbal did, this is just plain common sense. How do you know that Allah is good? He could be the most evil force in the universe for all we know... because Allah is just an imaginary being, get it?
allah is not in my imagination. i dont live in a fantasy world and deny facts unlike you lot. God being evil ? perish the thought ! look at the teachings of the holy quran and see how peaceful it is. how much it promotes good. how it deals in justice. how it promotes peace and harmony. if all this is evil to you, then i dont know what good is ! but you guys dont WANT read or hear all these statements i have mentioned i wonder who is being brainwashed.
can zen said:
Yes there is wisdom in the Quran - it is the wisdom of a history of a certain civilization, but it has nothing to do with gods or supernatural beings. Yes, America has been one of the worst terrorist organizations every created by human beings, but the Nazis were much, much worse, and the Soviets were at least as horrible as the worst of the American atrocities. But those days of madness are passing goldenhawk, thankfully.
atheism ignorance strikes again !!!! islam is a way of life. not just about historical references. its teachings are for everyone, rich, poor, kings, paupers, different cultures etc…all trying to better the life of mankind, but this is way to much for your monkey brain. let me ask you something, forget reading the whole quran, as one should do so to form an opinion, but i bet you have not read ANY full chapter of the quran have you ? then you makes claims about this and that when you know nothing about the quran ! all you guys do is base your evidence from hearsay, unreliable and biased sources. if this was a court of law and islam was on trial, i would love to have YOU as the prosecutor. not only i would win so easily, but you would also get fined also for wasting the courts time !
-
ok, to all you idiots (like carl zen) who think that the holy prophet muhammad (S) was nothig but a tribal warrior who was just killing people to unite the tribes for his own personal good. i really dont know where you got this idea, but it clearly demonstrates you know nothng abou this holy peronality. he was the most peace loving person ever existed (and i am not exagaerting here). he did unite the tribes of arabia, not through tyranny or cunning, but by his preaching and his exhalted character. yes there were wars, but if you bother to study them, they were all fought in self defence and nothing more unlike your western policy of pre emtive strikes.
-
No Atheist can successfully answer that clear and logical point on moral sources, goldenhawk786.
That is why they hate believers because they have a solid reference point.
Without a reference point there can be nothing, not even scientific research, nor a single expreriment.
Everybody gets the point of that POINT, but it hurts only the godless monkeys.
Debates on moral values are too much for Atheists to handle. They always run away.
-
The title of this thread was very clear. Even a ten year old human child can understand it.
I said human child. Not a chimp.
It is very interesting to see once again that when Atheists cannot answer a question in a reasonable manner, they divert to another subject which is easy for them.
Monkeys are like children. That is why they mess around. And that is why they are never taken seriously. They would be so much happier if they remained in a jungle. What they are doing in human communities, I dont know. Well, we have zoos for them here to keep them happy.
-
Every stupid excuse that you Atheists have given against God, or against His perfect book the Holy Quran, or against His perfect Messenger Prophet Mohammed... all such absurd statements of yours have been shown to you to be nothing but wishes of your irrational and brainwashed thinking.
Me and goldenkawk786 have laid out many logical arguments and clear scientific evidence which proves that Atheists hatred of Islam is nothing but a stupid excuse.
goldenhawk786 has particulary tried to reason with you Atheists, but you people simply refuse to open your mind to logic and real scientific facts.
It is as if you Atheists LIKE being stupid. You appears that way to every believer of God.
God can read the mind of Atheists. He revelaed in teh Quran that Atheists hate God, because they hate anything that goes against their wishes.
That is worst blindness of all. Seeing you see not. Hearing you hear not. Deaf and blind even when your ears and eyes are perfect.
When I listen to your silly excuses against God, it confirms your depth of delusions.
So far, I have not seen one sound reason from Atheists against anything that the holy Quran teaches.
You are only giviing me your personal feelings. Well, I dont give a damn about your personal feelings.
Give me valid reasons. You have so far failed to provide a single one.
You Atheists are no different from a silly woman who says I dont like brown lipstick, and all who do, are crazy.
That is your level of mentality. Childish.
You Atheists just love to cling on to your false hopes and unproven theories.
It is shocking for me to see that Atheists keep trying to find comfort in things they know to be uncertain.
Wake up.
-
goldenhawk786,
Just watch, more evasive replies coming from Atheists.
In this thread, I simply asked a clear question to those who hate God and his religion of Islam.
Any thinking person would notice how Atheists cannot tackle an easy straightforward questions.
Just test the primates and see for yourself.
Logic and facts seem to cause pain to the Atheists.
eudemonia:
Atheists have no theories and do not have to prove anything idiot wind. We simply believe their are no God(s), because there has never been any evidence that there are God(s)
Are you capable of even understanding the basis of this discussion? If not take your ball and go home.
What do you mean Atheists have no theories?
What do you call that Monkey Tale which you have invented?
Scientists cannot even agree if its crap, true, or just a wishful thiking of a deluded mind.
[ ray was banned from debating with Atheists after this post. ]
eudemonia:
Thats called the Theory of Evolution dumb fuck, and it has nothing to do with Atheism. Evolution is a scientific theory and fact, supported by mountains of observed, testable, falsifiable evidence, complied over a couple of hundred years now.
Atheism is not a theory. It is simply the nonbelief in God(s)
Maybe you should understand what things are before you try to argue against them. Do you understand the difference between science and faith even?
What the fuck are you even doing here and who lets you use their keyboard?
Saturday
Miscl
-
MISCL COMMENTS
After some searching the Logic team have found other topics where Ray and goldenhawk786 had posted
Rays was banned by Atheists during the discussion of concept of freedom of speech on the thread entitled "This Forum" in the General Discussion section.
Ray had also posted comments on these topics:
"Islam is spreading fast" (Islam 08 June 2009)
"Announcement on the future of Richard Dawkins Forum" (General Discussion 22 February 2010)
For example:
Richard Dawkins forum is a very suppressive place.
No freedom of speech there.
No freedom to debate in a civilised logical manner.
Don’t believe me. You go there and try it yourself. .
You will discover there is no reason nor intellect.
Only their “reason” and their “science” is permitted.
No alternative ideas are allowed which truly contradict Dawkins stance.
Severe intellectual criticism of the Dick Dawkins forbidden.
Its Dicks way or the highway.
Josh Timonen, Andrew Chalkley are in a bit of a jam because many people can now see what how filthy that “Oasis” has become.
The fault lies with its tyrannnical regime.
W. Collins :
I’ve got news for you Rays, if the rules were enforced around here you and Goldenhawk would be gone.
From this, Atheists’ oppressive nature is abduntantly clear. The rules you approved are product of your barbarity.
If it were up to Atheists like you, then all believers in what you call “superstition” would have their brains fried in an electric chair.
Thank God He does not allow the monkeys to rule in complete freedom. It shows His Might and Goodness.
Jefe:
who’s oppressing you today?
My take on all this:
Things are getting bad at the Richard Dawkins place.
Its worse then Homeland Security Department and the Patriot Act.
Just look at these gag orders:
Comments in red are interpretations that any honest thinker if he or she were to visit that website and observe what is really going on there.
[ Ray quotes Josh Timonen, Andrew Chalkley of the Richard Dawkins Foundation, and then inserts his comments in red ]
Richard Dawkins website is no more Oasis of Clear Thinking.
It is more like Oasis of Selective Brainwashing and a Haven of Censorship.
obscured by clouds :
. . . The new discussion area will not be a new forum. It will be different. We will be using a system of tags to categorize items, instead of sub-forums. Discussions can have multiple tags, such as “Education”, “Children”, and “Critical Thinking”.
nonverbal :
Can anyone explain this in practical terms? Has it been used with success anywhere else? How specifically will such a system solve whatever problems the RD forum experiences?
Acupuncturist :
I stalked that forum for a year or so before I worked up the impulse to start communicating and then was much more comfortable here for many reasons.
Ein Sophistry :
The biggest problem with the RDF forums was a glut of trolls and idiots (of all theological and atheological persuasions). If handled well, this could be a step in the right direction.
GAD:
Perhaps, but I predict death.
Me too.
Good riddance to tyrants. Long Live Sam Harris. He is a chilled out and cool dude.
--
[More past posts to be added as and when found...]
_________________________
MISCL COMMENTS
After some searching the Logic team have found other topics where Ray and goldenhawk786 had posted
Rays was banned by Atheists during the discussion of concept of freedom of speech on the thread entitled "This Forum" in the General Discussion section.
Ray had also posted comments on these topics:
"Islam is spreading fast" (Islam 08 June 2009)
"Announcement on the future of Richard Dawkins Forum" (General Discussion 22 February 2010)
For example:
Richard Dawkins forum is a very suppressive place.
No freedom of speech there.
No freedom to debate in a civilised logical manner.
Don’t believe me. You go there and try it yourself. .
You will discover there is no reason nor intellect.
Only their “reason” and their “science” is permitted.
No alternative ideas are allowed which truly contradict Dawkins stance.
Severe intellectual criticism of the Dick Dawkins forbidden.
Its Dicks way or the highway.
Josh Timonen, Andrew Chalkley are in a bit of a jam because many people can now see what how filthy that “Oasis” has become.
The fault lies with its tyrannnical regime.
W. Collins :
I’ve got news for you Rays, if the rules were enforced around here you and Goldenhawk would be gone.
From this, Atheists’ oppressive nature is abduntantly clear. The rules you approved are product of your barbarity.
If it were up to Atheists like you, then all believers in what you call “superstition” would have their brains fried in an electric chair.
Thank God He does not allow the monkeys to rule in complete freedom. It shows His Might and Goodness.
Jefe:
who’s oppressing you today?
My take on all this:
Things are getting bad at the Richard Dawkins place.
Its worse then Homeland Security Department and the Patriot Act.
Just look at these gag orders:
Comments in red are interpretations that any honest thinker if he or she were to visit that website and observe what is really going on there.
[ Ray quotes Josh Timonen, Andrew Chalkley of the Richard Dawkins Foundation, and then inserts his comments in red ]
Richard Dawkins website is no more Oasis of Clear Thinking.
It is more like Oasis of Selective Brainwashing and a Haven of Censorship.
obscured by clouds :
. . . The new discussion area will not be a new forum. It will be different. We will be using a system of tags to categorize items, instead of sub-forums. Discussions can have multiple tags, such as “Education”, “Children”, and “Critical Thinking”.
nonverbal :
Can anyone explain this in practical terms? Has it been used with success anywhere else? How specifically will such a system solve whatever problems the RD forum experiences?
Acupuncturist :
I stalked that forum for a year or so before I worked up the impulse to start communicating and then was much more comfortable here for many reasons.
Ein Sophistry :
The biggest problem with the RDF forums was a glut of trolls and idiots (of all theological and atheological persuasions). If handled well, this could be a step in the right direction.
GAD:
Perhaps, but I predict death.
Me too.
Good riddance to tyrants. Long Live Sam Harris. He is a chilled out and cool dude.
--
[More past posts to be added as and when found...]
_________________________
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